Fråga om blykölen på Facil 26
Hullo there!
I bought a Facil 26 this year in Lomma and sailed her to Denmark, where she is now at Nappedam harbour. Maybe (?) one of the first in Denmark?
When I got her up on saturday it looked like I had hit something – but I have not.
At the front of the keel I can see the lead.
I think it is “just” the join between the GPR and the lead keel. The keel nuts are tight and in very good condition.
Have any of you fine sailors seen something like this?
The plan is to check it out… and epoxy over and paint…
But any comments are very welcome! In swedish or english… I can read swedish .. kind of – and I try ‘translate’ when necessary
(just a bad idea to lose the keel !)
While here… any thoughts on re-routing the raw water feed. (it has the martec system and is fresh water cooled)
It’s nearly impossible to get to the valve to close intake on the sail drive.
If I can not replace the fittings on the drive, then I will close it off.
Then a new feed up to a (new) strainer over waterline then to the impeller. (I will probably have to make an new through-hull and ball valve to do that)
I don’t think the sail drive needs water cooling?
– sorry – in english.. I speak/write really good danish … but swedish for me (ex-pat .. GB years ago) is pretty difficult!.
(I had a great week in Lomma with the seller .. and lots of enjoyable misunderstandings! ) We keep in touch!
Okay…
Any comments?
Thanks in advance
Kind Regards
Robin
45 20 23 55 28
Hej. Här bara svar betr kölen (hoppas nån annan tar itu med dina övriga frågor).
Jag har en Facil 26 (byggd 1978), och jag tror du syftar på det ”glapp” som är mellan själva kölen och skrovet. Där har man ursprungligen kletat i nån tätmassa, kanske sikaflex? På min båt (som jag haft sedan 1980) har den delvis ”ramlat av” och på de ställena har jag tryckt i lite Plastic Padding. Jag tror knappast det att det tätar, men det blir i alla fall lite ”slätare” där. Och faktum är att jag inte tror att det gör nåt hur det än ser ut – det verkar helt tätt. Så jag tycker du kan kleta i vilken tätmassa du vill och sen se under första säsongen om det kommer in nåt vatten vid kölbultarna. Jag tror inte det gör det – dessa båtar verkar enormt rejält byggda (jag har inte fått in en droppe den vägen (bara andra vägar …) under alla år). Kolla förstås om kölbultarna (rostfria) ser ok ut (det gör de säkert!). Betr övermålning så är jag själv i färd med att renskrapa mitt skrov och köl från ALL bottenfärg (s k sanering) eftersom det uppmättes för högt TBT (tennförening) för att godkännas här i Stockholms län/Saltsjön. Det enda skälet för att epoximåla sedan det är klart är att täta skrovet – plastdelen alltså, som sägs suga ut sig vatten om det är bart. Men betr kölen så finns ju inte det skälet!! Bly suger ju inte åt sig vatten! Så jag funderar faktiskt på att låta bli att måla den med epoxi! Slutligen grattis till en rejält byggd båt – och speciellt grattis till blyköl! Dämpar lite mjukt när man går på (lätta att fixa till ev. sakdor sedan: hammare och fil …), rostar aldrig, bra värde den dag båten skrotas (hemska tanke!!).
/Lars K, Facil 26 nr 71
Hej Lars
Jeg har lige set dit svar og fik det oversæt til dansk! 1000 tak, men jeg fortsætter på engelsk! Det er nok bedst!
Yes, after a few days of research I came to conlusion that it was not a problem and easy to fix. I’ll also think about leaving it as it is. But probably better to epoxy it and bottom paint… also to make it smooth. Today I checked the torque on the keel bolts (that is to say with a short ordinary socket wrench). All but one seemed secure. I could tighten only one a bit. (Any idea of actual torque?) I don’t want to overdo it!
I did find some pages with numbers etc…. but … I am a musician – not a mathematician! So I couldn’t figure that out!
I am still pondering about the other things, like a new water feed. I am sure that the gear in the drive needs no cooling. Also of course the diaphragm between hull and drive…. It looks ok, but it’s old now. That will require getting the engine into the cabin I think. We’ll see!
I hope it goes well for you and the decontaminating job! And yes… They seem to be well built boats and strong too. I had plenty of wind on my final leg and max speed with just the genoa (it said 8,4 down a wave once?) Ain’t supposed to go that fast…
Thanks for your reply! Helps me with a bit of peace of mind!
I also “met” Lasse from Frederikssund through these pages. Must be – the other Facil 26 in Danmark! We will now compare notes!
Kind Regards
Robin ⛵️
Hello again,
Sorry, but I have no idea of torque of the keel bolts. However, I really think that you should leave everything as it is, i.e. not tight them harder (I am a little surprised that you managed to tighten one of them, and I do not recommend that you try to tighten them harder). The reason is, in my mind, that the keel is mounted directly on the hull (polyester/glasfiber), i.e. no flex. Thus it is so tight as it can/should be. The filling up (sikaflex or silicone or …) is just to prevent from water leaking (if the silicone etc applied originally round the bolts happen to not seal enough) and get the hull smooth. And you can regard this as an experiment – you will notice if there is any leakage the first year in the sea, and tyake care of this next winter. Btw IF the keel happen not to be tight to the hull you will surely notice (feel!) this when you ”wiggle” the boat. I have experienced this phenomenon in another boat (Maxi 77).
As regards your questions about the engine and water feed (etc) as I said I can not answer (I have an outboard engine!). For a better chance to get someone to anser these questions I think you should put this as a separate question here, i.e. with an own title that reflects this. (If it is an MD5 you can find some instructions in the manual (handbok) which is found here: http://www.facilklubben.se/facilbatarna/facil-26/ .
Finally, as regards the decontamination of my own boat I have now finished the hard first part of this work, namely to remove the epoxi paint (and other paints, unclear what …) by scraping – it took me 40 hours, done in two weeks – and now there are just numerous spots of red paint (the very first paint) to remove. But this is not a hard work as it is done using a paint remover (or thinner), and performed with cloth. This means no dust or else that can contaminate the environment, which means no coverage required, so this will be a pleasure in comparison. I am going to wait with that job until spring.
/Lars
(PS: As regards speed I have recorded 11 knots a few times. Once downwards i open sea with full sails downwards a wave – rather scary – , another time in flat water (lake Mälaren) with wind 18 mps and half wind with just jib – not at all scary; the boat acted as steady as a locomotive! DS)
Hi again, Thanks for your reply. And compliments on your excellent English!
I too was quite suprised that one of the nuts could be tightened! It moved under if a quarter turn, without all that much strength from me… and a standard length (short) wrench, so definitely not putting that much pressure on it. Thanks for the tip about rocking the boat the wiggle!
Also a good idea to ask a separate question about the sail drive leg intake.
I think I have downloaded just about all there is. I have that manual thanks. And the previous owner had it in the boat. So brushing up my swedish. It’s a really good supplement to the volvo one.
Btw – how does it work with an outboard? Is it easy to get at, to start etc. Steering only with the rudder I assume. I was thinking of doing that after twice getting caught out with an engine that overheated… Had to tack for 4 hours to get to my harbour (now fixed .. two completely different things, otherwise it sounds good – no black or wkite smoke.)
Actually… if you would be so kind, you may send a foto sometime of how that is set up… no hurry!
My mail is robinnwatson@gmail.com (2 n’s!)
Glad to hear you are through the worst of the job! Now you can enjoy that the remaining work is much more pleasant!
– and interesting to hear that they obviously are able to plane! I imagine that the open sea with full sails – that trip was a bit – scary!
There was a point on my home journey when I said to myself and the wind, that it wasn’t necessary to blow any harder… thank you !
Also great to hear that they are so solid and sail really well in all sorts of weather!
(I had the doubtful pleasure of 28 s/m in my Marieholm a few years back… at about 2 in the morning alone… my flag disappeared, the electric autopilot took a swim… and my nav got swamped!- I had a good gps and charts but I decided to make a call – Pan Pan … they said that the wind had dropped a bit… and was now ‘only’ 28 s/m! Oh yes – the engine was also out due to diesel pest! That was also a maiden – for me – voyage home with my new boat! And we seem to enjoy it all! )
I seeing a bit of the Vendée Globe Race these days…. fascinating!
That’s all for now, and thanks again!
Kind Regards
Robin
(4520235528)
Let me take one issue at a time!
Outboard motor:
Advantages: Cheap, better speed under sail (when lifted and tilted), no mounting, easy to maintain, easy winter storing: just lift it off and store it inhouse. And: you do not get tempted to start the motor just because the wind decreases! This means as environmental friendly boat life as possible 🙂 .
Disadvantages: Many, for example:
– Use and handling is difficult.
1) Even with a long rig motor, it is necessary to be able to pull it up and down. That means that you have to mount rails on the stern. Standard rails are just about half a meter in length *), so it is necessary in addition to this tilt it to get the propeller up from the water when you not run the motor **).
2) The up-and-down operation itself is not fun.
3) Operation is complicated as the motor controls even in lifted position are hard to reach. This is true as for rope starting as well as the throttle control and choke (if there is any). ***)
4) Normally the motor is fixed so it does not allow steering. But if you want steering you have also this to control. (And to steer with the motor may of course be a very nice quality! Some not so powerful motors even may be turned around 360 degrees!)
*) I myself has prolonged the rails so they cover the whole length of the stern! And as my back is not so strong as when I was younger, I have mounted blocks and hoists that makes it possible to lift (and lower) the motor. (An extra advantage with this is that tilting is not needed!)
**) Of course you can let the motor in ”down” position even when it is not running. But this of course means less speed when under sail. Ok, not so much – but still something that you want to avoid! Another disadvantage is that in the long run it means bearings that wear out unnecessary as the propeller rotates.
***) With an electric motor these problems are eliminated by placing the controls in the ”cockpit”, which is easy done.
– I think that maximum power for an outboard motor for a 26 footer is about 10 hp, which may not be enough in very rough situations. (I have 5 hp, which is enough in all sitations in flat water, but not against the sea when waves).
– The position of the propeller means bad efficiency (compared to an inboard motor)
– Almost impossible to operate in open sea and large waves as the propeller alternately lift out of the water and gets submerged (maybe even the whole motor gets wet!).
– Higher fuel consumption.
– Not to recommend for long term operations, e.g. to reach a harbour many, many hours away in case the wind fails.
(I have to admit I often wish I had an inboard motor!) (PS: I will mail some photos on my outboard motor mounting. DS).
As about my sailing speed (mentioned earlier) two or three times reaching 11 knots it was not real ”planing”, even if the feeling was that in free wind downward waves in open sea.
Finally, again, I have to comment sailing in open sea. While sailing against the wind on flat water means no problems even with much wind (with decent sail settings). But this does not apply on open sea in the same conditions (i.e. much wind) as it most likely means big waves. To be able to force these waves it is necessary to carry enough sails, probaly more than you like. (You can call it to ”fight” against the wind, waves and sea). This means very wet sailing as the Facil 26 has a fairly narrow foreship. And the speed goes down very, very much. (Of course about the same is true for other boats in the same size).
As a matter of fact I avoid to sail against the wind on open sea with waves if more than, say, 6-8 mps. It is possible, but … And you can forget to operate by outboard motor! On lower courses, open wind etc, it is no problem with more wind – but (as you mentioned) it can be somewhat scary.
/Lars